Just watched the final debate. What a nice match. Both guys had some great lines, great licks, and great comebacks.

Early remarks by neutral media seems to give Bush the win. Liberal media is calling it a win for Kerry or a draw at worst.

Personally, I thought it was just a great fight. I love to see a nice match-up and a hefty battle. Both men delivered well and made their points very clearly. This time it wasn't a matter of a better performance or not. They finally made it a basic choice between their varying issues.

As far as performance goes, I'd have to say it was the best of the three, without a doubt. Both guys drove it out of the park.

Bush gets my vote for sure. He still comes off like a retarded bumpkin sometimes, but I can't stand Kerry's politics. Kerry mentioning Dick Cheney's gay daughter for no good reason at all was a low blow just to get a reaction. That's unneccessary. You could tell by the way he struggled to get the statement out that he was not comfortable with it, or the wording. I think his campaign people made him do that. He was obviously coached to do it. Bad choice by his campaign people. That was his lowest point in the campaign so far.

Bush saying that Kerry makes Ted Kennedy look like the conservative senator for Mass. was unnecessary. Also, saying that Kerry sits on the far left bank of the political river isn't helpful either. That's just trying to make funny put-downs, and it's not helpinng anything.

Other than that, they both did a great job of making their points.

agreed agreed agreed and very well said.

but my vote is for kerry b/c of international relations, a woman's right to choose, affirmative action and tax cuts






and that's just on income tax. The other tax cuts such as the capital gains cut, the dividend cut, the estate tax cut and the gifting tax are all specifically directed to the wealthy as well. The average joe doesnt own a ton of stock outside of their tax deferred retirement plans and they are certainly not eligable for estate taxes or gift taxes.


I dont give a shit that i got back less than $900 in tax cuts on my 50k single income (75k jt income)........ i dont breed so i dont get that nice breeding incentive kick back.
The price for gas is thru the roof, my medical insurance is going sky high with no end in sight and I know I'm lossing more than what i got back.
I know if you make more you get more back but the fact is the poorest 20 percent of workers, who earn on average $16,600 annually, will get a tax break of $250 this year, which is less than 2 percent of their income The top 1% receive around 7%. That's definatley not equal...nearly 4 times the difference. Meanwhile, more tax breaks were given to big business again this week.

in a further rant.........
Not only did my job inform me today that my premiums will rise once again in january, i will be forced to take madatory blood/lab tests and answer confidential medical questions in order to keep my job and my medical insurance :roll:
(new policies coming soon to a job near you)

This is medical profiling and it should be illegal. It will be used later to deny coverage, cancel coverage and increase your premiums. This is supposed to be a group medical plan. What its turned into is a total invasion of my privacy.

nazi fucks

All I know is that Bushes tax cuts saved my parents about $4,000 last year. WOOWOO! Vote Bush!

yea but for most people that 4k is eaten up in higher medical expenses, gas costs, stagnent job pay, a flat market and .wait til you get the heating bill this winter.

the government is not a savings plan.

i love how people will have the government with-hold a ton of money from their pay and then get a big fat refund check at the end of the year and they feel like the government has done them some kind of favor. All they're doing is giving the fed's an interest free loan.

Kerry > Bush

Some of you say that Kerry is just a good talker, but that's what you have to be to get your point accross. How can you be the COMMANDER IN CHIEF of this great country and not be able to deliver your points in a way that makes sense.

I did notice Kerry attacked Bush early on (from the first question) which I think is kinda lame since it's more of the same accusations, but then Bush retaliated with more of his same accusations.

The only part that I believe Bush spoke (edit* wait, not only spoke but his whole opinion on it was better) better then Kerry was during the abortion question, Kerry got owned there but thats about it. As for the conclusion, omfg Bush's conclusion was pitiful compared to Kerry's. Just my 2cents.

All these tax cuts are making my head spin! Kerry talked about rolling back tax cuts that Bush had passed. Bush made himself look dumb, well at a lot of times I thought, but when they were talking about the assault-gun ban in which he said it wouldn't of passed (he didn't even try!).

I'm not sure what channel you guys saw it on, but the one i was watching they were showing both candidates while 1 was speaking and Bush's facial expressions were off the chain!

Anywho I can't vote, so wtf mate!

Rich people pay an assload more taxes than you, and they pay a higher percantage too. They should be getting more money back than you. What we really need though, is a flat tax.

The government wasnt always dumb with money. When this country was first started, we had such a large surplus, we were just giving it away from random projects around the country!

Looking at those graphs.... How the F*CK can a family that makes 40,000 a year have two kids?

The reason those brackets didn't get tax cuts is because they're on F*CKING welfare getting handouts from the government.

pick up any financial text book and it will tell you that the flat tax is a huge burden on the poor.
The flat tax is a horrible idea and it is incredibly unfair. ask any financial advisor who benefits from the flat tax and they will tell you its the wealthy.

sheesh!

:roll:
people are so misinformed. hell i dont even think they teach people how to balance a check book in school, let alone how the economy functions.

I'm not making this shit up. I hold 5 financial licenses including financial planning, registered investment advisor, insurance and asset management. Its not a liberal spin. get over the rhetoric

and people who make 40k a yr are not on welfare


when you actually KNOW something about finance and accounting, get back to me on this topic



**I'm sorry if I sound hard harsh but its really frustrating hearing this poorly informed crap

A family with two kids that makes $40,000 a year?

That's not enough money to support two kids and have a decent F*CKING life. My parents' combined income is just over $100,000 a year and sometimes we're stretched for money.

I don't see how a family that makes $40,000 a year can have two kids and not be on welfare.

Wow.... charging everyone the same tax rate is "incredibly unfair".

What's "incredibly unfair" is penalizing people based on their ability to withstand the penalty, and not based on fairness.

Since the very wealthy can afford it, let's just take half their income. Since the poor can't afford BMWs, let's go ahead and make the rich buy them cars too. It's incredibly unfair that rich people drive better cars than poor people.

We need to take more money from the rich, and have the government buy millions of cars and distribute them to the public based on their needs and not their income. Poor people would need better cars than rich people, so they would feel better about themselves and not feel like they were a lesser part of society.

While we're at it, let's make the rich people go to the public clinics, and take their money to provide world-class healthcare to the poor.

The poor are probably in worse shape than the rich, so they need the better quality healthcare, right?

It should be forbidden for rich people to get private medical care. They should be forced to use VA hospitals. Private hospitals should be reserved for the people who need them most.

Your financial licenses have nothing to do with worldwide economics. Nor do they have any relavence to you being a tax expert or national economic expert.

Just because you know how to invest doesn't mean you know jack shit about tax structures for a better national economy.

Don't overstate your qualifications unless you're prepared for people to tear them apart.

tear them apart?

giggle!

ok here is why i think its unfair.....take a person who makes 20k a year and tax them at 30%. take another person who makes 200k a year and give them the same tax rate. The person making 200k will pay more in taxes yes, but they will have plenty of money left over for shelter, transportation etc. The person on 20k however may not. Its simple math.

Of course if the 200k guy lives in a million dollar home and drives a 65,000 dollar car he may be stretched as well but who the F*CK needs a 1 million dollar home. I'm talking about a decent home not a freaken mansion.

Again I will say, pick up study material for any financial license.....series 7, investment advisor, certified financial planner, ect.....and it will plainly spell out that a flat tax burdens the poor.

I'm not making it up. Its not a liberal spin. Its basic economics. Obvisously my career does give me some credibility in this subject or else i would not have to be explaining this and/or arguing about it. We can disagree on a lot of things and thats fine by me but this is not a matter to be diagreed upon. It is a fact that the flat tax hurts the poor the most b/c they can least afford to have those dollars taken from them. It takes a certain number of dollars to have basic needs.

I dont argue with a network engineer over the mechanics of software just because I know how to turn my computer on.

FLAT tax hurts the poor most. Its not even debatable.

And don’t even get me started on healthcare because I’m so hot about that subject right now that I could eat a box of F*CKING nails.

I am subsidizing the old. I'm 30 years old. I'm in good health. I never go to the doctor. And yet my health insurance is only $50 less a month than my F*CKING mortgage.
And not only am I bleeding money thru the system, I'm now being forced to disclose all my personal information and submit blood sample to my insurance company to keep my policies.
I added up how much of my pay goes to insurance and taxes and its roughly 68% between the two of them.
It’s outrageous!!! And it pisses me off!!
I want my taxes lowered. I want my insurance lowered. I don’t want to subsidize all these other people. I don’t!
I understand where you are coming from on this.
But it’s a finite system. Cut them out of one pocket and they are just digging in your other pocket.
My point is we need real reform but all we have is appeasement taking place here.
Don't blame it all on the poor. Open your eyes. Look a little closer. The scapegoat is just a distraction.
It’s not the poor who are F*CKING you, it’s the rich.
The middle class take the worst burden of all when it comes to taxes. you should be telling the rich to pay more in taxes b/c you are not the rich. and if you want your taxes lowered, where do you think that extra money is going to come from? the poor?
no!!!
again its a finite system. if the extra money does not come from those people making millions of dollars a year then where will it come from? if the big breaks are going to the guys who make more money than we will probably ever see in a life time, who will pick up the bill? how will your money.......not just your taxes.....ever be back in YOUR pocket?
the middle class support the rich and the poor.
we're taking it in both ends. and the rhetoric and proproganda keep us thinking that somehow we're the rich and the poor are screwing us.
its a bunch of horse shit.

I'm not bitching at anyone. I just think the subject matter is worthy of discussion and of course I dont think we should we should subsidize expensive goods to the poor to make them feel better about themselves. That's just silly. But I dont think I should be subsidizing huge cuts for the rich and big business just so they can feel better about themselves either.
My company states that they will see a savings of 100 million dollars b/c they are forcing me to give bodily fluids to the insurance company. Why is it then, that my insurance just went up another 15%? Its gone up over 30% in the past 2 years. The insurance company is saving money. My company is saving money and I'm paying more. It doesnt add up.
The people who are getting screwed here is the average wage earner and its not some hobo grinding it to me, its big business. Let's give credit where credit is due

Who's to say the guy that makes six figures doesn't F*CKING DESERVE a million dollar home?

My parents used to be poor. Shit, when I was a kid we were dirt poor. We now own five houses and have new cars. You know how my parents did it? They worked their F*CKING asses off. Anyone can do it. Anyone that puts their F*CKING mind to making money can do it.

One with all of your F*CKING "financial qualifications" should know a little about making money. Poor people are not incapable.

You know what? I'm not being fucked by the rich. I don't hate rich people. You know why? Because some day I plan on being rich. Simple investments can multiply money. My parents have proven that with all of the property we own (just over 250 acres - 5 houses and a ranch in south texas that's probably worth $1-$2M).

You know what happens to us? We get fucked by property taxes. We get fucked by them long and hard. Does Leroy the Big Lipped AFRICAN AMERICAN pay high property taxes? No. You know why? Because he F*CKING lives in the projects, a shitty house with hardly any property value, or he rents from someone that pays his property taxes for him.

So what if you think it fucks the poor. I think a flat tax is a good idea. If you can't make enough money to support kids, don't have them. If you make good money and can afford to pay your taxes, good for you. Buy a BMW. I don't give a shit. Be happy.

The government is not here to give F*CKING handouts. The government is not here to tax and spend. The government is not here to make your peenith tingle. The government is here to provide some F*CKING structure in our lives and keep us from shitting in other people's mouths.

F*CK tax-and-spend policies. F*CK giving constant handouts to the poor. F*CK over-taxing the rich because they can afford it. F*CK liberal, hippy, douchebag bullshit. F*CK it in the asshole until it bleeds, then beat it with a crow-bar.

A good friend once said to me, "Friends don't let friends vote for democrats."

Gman I never meant to imply that a person doesnt deserve a million dollar home. I think my point was lost. Your family is not the rich. There are very few people who can be considered rich. Who do you know that makes over a million dollars a year?
I dont want to suck on the government tit or the corporate tit. Why do you think being dependent on big business is any different to being dependent on the government? Why do you defend it with such aggressive passion?
Anyway I digress.......
I found out I'm lossing my job today for budget cuts so I dont even care about engaging in this conversation atm; I give up.

Being dependent on business requires skill. As a toplevel manager or CEO of a major corporation, each decision you make can impact the amount of money your company makes.

A AFRICAN AMERICAN on welfare is a different story. Sucking the government tit takes no skill. The money one makes in business is legitimate money. It is money that someone spent for goods/services provided by the company. Handouts from the government aren't given back for goods/services. There is nothing difficult about getting something for free. There's no struggle. You don't have to TRY.

I defend it with an aggressive passion because I aspire to be something. When I grow old and have kids, I would like to provide them with more than what I was given as I grew. I was given quite a lot, so I have to aim high. I am planning for the future. Any parent here will agree that their goal, as a parent, is to provide something better for their children. They want their kids to have a better life than what they have.

I respect hard work. That's all there is to it. I do NOT respect people that expect to get things without working for them.

I hope I've made my point.

gman i like your point...but would it be ok if i sucked on your tit? lmao im jk

"When I grow old and have kids, I would like to provide them with more than what I was given as I grew. I was given quite a lot, so I have to aim high. I am planning for the future. Any parent here will agree that their goal, as a parent, is to provide something better for their children."

"I do NOT respect people that expect to get things without working for them."