From : Slash Dot Article

Valve's Steam just released 3 software packages you can buy. It's great to be able to play CS:S while Valve and Vivendi duke out their legal battles. However, I have some concerns about their Subscriber Agreement - in particular, section 4.

Most people dismiss agreements like this. EULA's are probably discarded on a per-minute basis around the world, but this SA is slightly different. First, the games being offered are not for "purchase" but rather available for "access" via a "Subscription fee". If this doesn't fuel the fear that Valve will turn Steam into a huge subscription-based monster like Evercrack, I don't know what would (I'll leave the debate whether subscription based games are the future or not for someone else - read: don't discuss that here, thx). Even if Valve doesn't morph into a subscription-based system, the usage of the term certainly keeps this open (as if the terms in 4B doesn't). And second, there appears to be a "forced subscription" model in place - meaning that if you don't say "NO" loudly enough, you probably will have to foot a "bleeding from the wallet" fee.

In it, 4A suggests that the end user agrees to maintain up-to-date credit card information with Valve. Other than a pre-authorized payment subscription type plan, I don't know why else that would be required. Section 4B states that Valve offers a 30-day period for announcing changes to their fees and billing methods and that "non cancellation" of their services automatically means you agree to and authorized payment of the new fee(s) and/or billing method(s).

The concern of 4B is not limited to this Steam Powered SA and is apparent in many subscription and pre-authorized payment plans, albeit probably not in the exact wording. And if you're not careful, you may have ended up in this kind of credit card "trap" before.

By "trap", I mean that the credit card owner ends up paying for new and different services he or she may or may not have wanted in the first place. And that redressment, reimbursement, reversal of charges, or credit of any kind is not possible, as stated in the SA. I hate to be cynical, but you can hear laughter from the Swindler's gallery snicking "We've covered our butts, but we've prevented you from covering yours!"

This reminds me of the opt-in/opt-out warefare in the courts not too terribly long ago. The most recent in my memory is the Telemarketing do-not-call plan.

Here's an example of the Valve SA gone bad:

John Doe "buys" the Gold package and gets the merchandise 2 months later, all the while enjoying CS:S and awaits HL2 and other games when they're out. Then, he stops playing Steam games for some reason or other. Maybe it's going to Iraq for 6 months. Maybe he's KIA and his family's a mess trying to get his body back from some third world country. Maybe it's being laid off an no net connection. Maybe he's got a new baby and he has no time for the computer. Maybe his wife has cancer and he doesn't want to leave her side. Maybe he's in jail for insider trading. Maybe he's found a new game and dropped Steam games like a bad habit. Maybe he's just forgotten his password and given up on the damned thing. Or maybe he's installed a anti-spam software, e-mail filters, firewalls, anti-spyware, and disables services and system functions on this computer so that the accumulative effects prevented the announcement of a change in the fees and/or billing methods from ever being read. Anyhow, Valve's new fee/billing method is not known for months until the credit card bill is examined. While the saavy credit card holder who bought the Gold Package may immediately know where to cancel, the poor widow of GI John Doe might take weeks to find out who the hell Valve is and put a stop to the incessant monthly billing. SORRY, NO REFUNDS!

The first thing you might laugh at is the assumption that John Doe doesn't read his credit card bill every month. Some people watch it like a hawk, and some people aren't as diilgent. It's a fact of life. But is it just to make such persons liable for new fees? There certainly isn't an option for automatically opting out of any fees in this SA. So that does that mean GI John Doe stationed in God-knows-where for six months should also face risk of being nickel and dimed without his knowledge? What about little Timmy's dad whereby little Timmy clicked on the close for the announcement of a change in fees/billing method and also deleted his father's email just because he liked the game so much?

For those familiar with changing trends in economics, personal financing, credit cards, and trust, this opens a whole new can of worms - one that much bigger than the observation I'm making here about Valve's SA.

To be fair, I sincerely doubt Valve's intentions are evil and insensitive to end users and that profitting from non-vigilant credit card holders is their "master plan". And this SA looks like it was drawn up from the mish mash of legalese assimulated from various documents. Not to say the SA is shoddy or plagiarized mindlessly from other material, but... well, let's say I believe it could be produced in a manner that's better for both Valve and its fans. Of which, I doubt every Valve and Steam software user reads announcements like a religion, hardcore gamers nothwithstanding

Although this issue can be solved by automatically opting out every "subscriber" not responding with an authoritative yes (little Timmy clicking on every YES button is not enough), there are dozens, possibly hundreds more similar "SA" situations out there. However, relatively few are involving as many under-18-year-olds and potentially financially irresponsible young adults.
Last Updated ( Tuesday, 12 October 2004 )

OK, Can you like summarize all that for me cause I dont wana read it all right now...thanks..... :wink:

Steam might be preparing to bang us in our butts, not just without lube, but with sawdust.
It'd definitely be worth your time to read that, HHB. ;-)

hmmmm.....can anyone say direct connect through the old instalation CD software......I say Boycot Steam....Set up the Underground Servers!!......Take it to the man....don't give them a dime....Pirate Their server software.....set up the gaming REVOLUTION!




Oh wait....Sorry.....went a little overboard....must remember to take my medication!

Eh, if they start charging, I'll start playing Mw4 more and go buy games like FF online or some crap and pay for that.

I will not pay to play CS online, unless its a cable internet bill. ;)

I currently have a server config for 1.6 without steam.

We use it for Lan Parties when we cant aquire inet.

Corpse if you would like I can give you ftp access to it on my server and you can try it out for a future revolution.

might not be a bad idea (for those of us who never look at their credit card bill) to cancel the card that you purchased source on and have it reissued.
That should solve the problem.

Be sure to call it in lost or stolen, not just a replacement card, so you get a new number

the only problem with that is they (credit card companies) look at previous billing and if it was setup prior to the lost card event, they automatically roll the charges over to prevet any poor customer service issues.

I couldn't help it!!!!

Does anyone know of a way without steam to connect to a remote server?......and if so....please advertize it......we need to get this Revolution going soon or we are going to up shits creek!

You all are making a big deal out of nothing. If valve suddenly charged your credit card without your knowledge, they would have their asses sued off. And charging a subscription fee would drive so many people away, Valve would go out of business. So no, valve isnt going to be charging your card, do you dont have to cancel your card and start a revolution.

Has Anyone ever called you a party pooper? or maybe CAPTAIN BRINGDOWN?[/b]

Shoot I want pay crap Ill get a differnt free gun game.Unless its like 5 dollars then maybe.

The problem is the wording of the EULA.
It leaves open the possibility for a revolving charge.
If you leave a credit card on file then you have preauthorized charges.
I am sure that there would be a warning before anyone was charged my concern is that valve has become quite greedy.
I have dealt with valve and its gimmie gimmie attitude when I owned my Lan center.
I never had loaner / rental computers so they could not hit me for the absurd licensing fee, so they found out I was hosting C/S tournies. I received letters from valve inquiring how much money I had made at the front door on entrance fees, how much I made on concessions, and what did I estimate the value of the prizes I was receiving from sponsors.
Now why in the hell would they need to know any of this information.
My customers bought the game they were playing.

Now consider this if you really believe valve has no intensions of turning C/S into a pay to play venue why are they spending all of this money on steam??



"Most people dismiss agreements like this. EULA's are probably discarded on a per-minute basis around the world, but this SA is slightly different. First, the games being offered are not for "purchase" but rather available for "access" via a "Subscription fee". If this doesn't fuel the fear that Valve will turn Steam into a huge subscription-based monster like Evercrack, I don't know what would (I'll leave the debate whether subscription based games are the future or not for someone else - read: don't discuss that here, thx). Even if Valve doesn't morph into a subscription-based system, the usage of the term certainly keeps this open (as if the terms in 4B doesn't). And second, there appears to be a "forced subscription" model in place - meaning that if you don't say "NO" loudly enough, you probably will have to foot a "bleeding from the wallet" fee.

In it, 4A suggests that the end user agrees to maintain up-to-date credit card information with Valve. Other than a pre-authorized payment subscription type plan, I don't know why else that would be required. Section 4B states that Valve offers a 30-day period for announcing changes to their fees and billing methods and that "non cancellation" of their services automatically means you agree to and authorized payment of the new fee(s) and/or billing method(s)."

No, but I have been called the voice of reason.

That's kinda like the designated driver.