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CSS crash
http://www.n00bfest.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=39520		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Meteorology Man [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  CSS crash
Hey guys, for several months now my computer has been struggling to run CS:S at the settings I used to run it at (mainly, screen resolution of about 1280 x 960). The game, and my entire system, would randomly crash. Sometimes I could play for an hour before it happens, sometimes only a few minutes. But it always happens the same way: the screen goes black, but whatever sound was playing at the instant the crash occurred repeats itself until I hard reboot my system. I found the online Steam crash support page (https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7169-TIAV-5361#basic) and went through it as best as I could, and in the end I found out that the one setting that almost completely controlled whether or not my system crashed was the screen resolution. It turns out I have to keep my screen resolution to 800 x 600 at best or it will crash (it has crashed 2 or 3 times in the last 6 months even doing that, though). It didn't seem to matter what level of hardware acceleration I used or how good of texture detail I used, just the screen res. I'm 99% sure my hardware and shit is plenty good. Some stats:

Processor: AMD dual core ~2800 MHz
OS: Windows XP SP3
4 GB RAM
Video card: nVIDIA GeForce 9600 GT (512 MB RAM)
DirectX 9.0c
I've installed the latest drivers for my video and sound cards and have the most up-to-date DirectX runtime. Ran DXdiag and it's fine.
It's not my AV program (CA) because it crashes even when that is shut down.
I have DEP turned on for hl2 and CSS.

The only things I didn't do that were on that page were to check my system memory (because the program they link looks like a UNIX program and it wouldn't install on my system) and update my BIOS because I'm not that good with computers so I don't know what I'm doing and I didn't want to F*CK up my system.

Please help! I don't see why I can't run the game at 1280 x 960 again. Thanks.
Author:  Reborn [ Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Do you have any way of monitor your system temperature? Particularly your cpu and gpu temperature? I have seen a lot of cases like this (especially with the looping sound) due to overheating.

Try this.

Go into nvidia control panel to the cooling section, and turn fan speed all the way up to 80-100%.
Now play the game for a couple hours and see if it crashes.
Author:  CLOROX [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
It could be several causes:

1. Viruses can get into a harddrive even if you have A good AV and replicate and cause chaos for months.
2. Defragment your harddrive
3. try using the stock drivers that came with your GPU on the cd.
4. check your ram/cpu temperatures and use a memory tester of some sort to look for error in ram.(if errors are found replace the ram)
5. Your PSU could be slowly dieing causing the card to recieve less power than it needs to render the game this can cause crashes and BSOD
6. check any other drivers such as sound or network drivers that may be corrupted or outdated
7. BACKUP all files that are important (music,photos,work etc)
8. Reformat the drive and reinstall windows (its a pain but will fix software problems 99% of the time)
Author:  Spyda [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
CLOROX wrote:
1. Viruses can get into a harddrive even if you have A good AV and replicate and cause chaos for months.


DUDE! I'm going to block off the open spots on my computer right now so viruses can't get into my hard drive. I sneezed yesterday and when I turned my head, it was the way of my PC, I'm probably fucked already!
Author:  Meteorology Man [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Thanks for the replys, guys. I'll start from the top.

Reborn wrote:
Do you have any way of monitor your system temperature? Particularly your cpu and gpu temperature? I have seen a lot of cases like this (especially with the looping sound) due to overheating.

Try this.

Go into nvidia control panel to the cooling section, and turn fan speed all the way up to 80-100%.
Now play the game for a couple hours and see if it crashes.


Attached is a screenshot of my nVIDIA control panel. I didn't see the section you were talking about. Did I miss it or do I not have it?

Attachments:
help1.JPG
help1.JPG [ 96.09 KiB | Viewed 8715 times ]
Author:  Meteorology Man [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Spyda wrote:

DUDE! I'm going to block off the open spots on my computer right now so viruses can't get into my hard drive. I sneezed yesterday and when I turned my head, it was the way of my PC, I'm probably fucked already!


Yyyyeahhhh...about that idea. Don't do it. I tried it...and now I'm having serious overheating issues. Can't figure that out. Yellow_Flash_Colorz_PDT_05
Author:  Reborn [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
It seems like nvidia control panel does not have that anymore. Get rivatuner - http://downloads.guru3d.com/RivaTuner-v ... d-163.html

It will let you control the fan speed manually. Try doing that (set fan speed at 80-100%) and play and see if it crashes. If it doesn't try bringing down the fan speed to 50-60% and keep it there.
Author:  Bleep [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Definitely agree with reborn, sounds like a major overheating isssue or maybe you OC and the memory is on the fritz lol
Author:  Meteorology Man [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Bleep wrote:
Definitely agree with reborn, sounds like a major overheating isssue or maybe you OC and the memory is on the fritz lol


Sounds like you are right, Bleep.

First of all, I downloaded that RivaTuner software and it locks up everytime I try to do something in the "power user" tab, so it seems pretty useless to me.

I decided to monitor my CPU temperature and found it to be sitting in the 55 to 56 C range, which from my knowledge is way too hot. Thus, I opened the case and sprayed out as much dust as I could (there was a lot in there on the fans and the CPU vents), but that alone didn't make a difference. I tried putting my box in a different position (it was sitting right behind the monitor and I thought maybe the heat from the monitor was making it run hot), but that didn't seem to make a difference. Finally, I left the side panel off, put it on the floor, and put an oscillating fan on it. Now the CPU temperature is in the 48 - 52 range, which is still too hot, but I have been able to run CSS at 1280 x 960 resolution (getting ~100 fps on average) a couple of times for 30 minutes without it crashing.

Does anyone know what I can do to get that CPU core temp down? My motherboard temperature is much better (25 - 30 C range). I figure it might be one of my fans, but they're all running fine. A friend of mine suggested it might be the heat sink simply not able to handle the stress I'm putting on the CPU (not running a ton on the machine so that would surprise me).

Also, I'm using a 460 W power supply. Not sure if that makes a difference.
Author:  Bleep [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Rivatuner is monitoring your GPU so to get your GPU temps down there are a few things you can do. Speed up the fan or you could remove the shroud and clean out all the dust on the inside of the heatsink. You could also similarly take the whole heatsink off of the gpu and reapply thermal paste and thermal pads to your memory. Optimally your temps should be a lot lower, perhaps in the 30's range at idle.
Author:  Lime [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
55-56c is that under load or just when the computer is at a stand still. 55 is hot for idle but if that is your temp for a cpu under full load then that is well within the normal operating tempatures, most CPUs are rated to be with in premissable tempature if they stay below 65c under full load. I usually use Prime95 to put a load on my cpu when overclocking and monitor the tempetures with speedfan so that I can look at the tempature over time.
Author:  Lime [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
I also reread your post did you ever get a chance to test your system memory and is the crash a blue screen or does it just freeze up and you have to manually reboot. I ask this because most overheating issues will just shut the system down or freeze it and put it on a loop where as you will usually get a "BSOD" blue screen of death if it is more so related to memory. If you hold I believe it is usually F2 when you start up your system you should get some boot options such as start windows normally, start in safe mode, and the one on the very bottom is a memory self check test that you can run. Best of luck.
Author:  Reborn [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Meteorology Man wrote:
Bleep wrote:
Definitely agree with reborn, sounds like a major overheating isssue or maybe you OC and the memory is on the fritz lol


Sounds like you are right, Bleep.

First of all, I downloaded that RivaTuner software and it locks up everytime I try to do something in the "power user" tab, so it seems pretty useless to me.

I decided to monitor my CPU temperature and found it to be sitting in the 55 to 56 C range, which from my knowledge is way too hot. Thus, I opened the case and sprayed out as much dust as I could (there was a lot in there on the fans and the CPU vents), but that alone didn't make a difference. I tried putting my box in a different position (it was sitting right behind the monitor and I thought maybe the heat from the monitor was making it run hot), but that didn't seem to make a difference. Finally, I left the side panel off, put it on the floor, and put an oscillating fan on it. Now the CPU temperature is in the 48 - 52 range, which is still too hot, but I have been able to run CSS at 1280 x 960 resolution (getting ~100 fps on average) a couple of times for 30 minutes without it crashing.

Does anyone know what I can do to get that CPU core temp down? My motherboard temperature is much better (25 - 30 C range). I figure it might be one of my fans, but they're all running fine. A friend of mine suggested it might be the heat sink simply not able to handle the stress I'm putting on the CPU (not running a ton on the machine so that would surprise me).

Also, I'm using a 460 W power supply. Not sure if that makes a difference.


I don't know what problem you are having with rivatuner, but it is far from useless. Unless you plan on upgrading your CPU heatsink/fan and the case fans, you really want to get the nvidia card speed from the default 29/30% to 50-60%.

Another thing you should know is that IDLE temps upto 55 is completely normal. You will need superior cooling to bring it down. At that kind of temperature for the CPU (normal), I can tell you that your GPU is the one that is most likely overheating. CPU temperatures under FULL LOAD is normal even if it goes into very high 60s / low 70s for AMD CPUs. That is how they are manufactured, and this threshold is much higher for Intel CPUs. So don't concern yourself with your CPU temps.

Trying to bring down CPU idle temps from what you have right now is pointless unless you are into overclocking. You should concentrate on bringing down the GPU temps, and checking for faulty RAM as stated by others.
Author:  Meteorology Man [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Lime wrote:
I also reread your post did you ever get a chance to test your system memory and is the crash a blue screen or does it just freeze up and you have to manually reboot. I ask this because most overheating issues will just shut the system down or freeze it and put it on a loop where as you will usually get a "BSOD" blue screen of death if it is more so related to memory. If you hold I believe it is usually F2 when you start up your system you should get some boot options such as start windows normally, start in safe mode, and the one on the very bottom is a memory self check test that you can run. Best of luck.


I don't get a BSOD, just a black screen with the looping. I can't figure out which key it is to set my boot options. F2 didn't do it. F8 brought up a window asking for a boot device, but it only listed my two hard drives, my CD-ROM drive, and a flash drive that I have inserted right. Didn't find the memory test anywhere.

Also, I don't really know what I'm doing with the RivaTuner software. At least it's not freezing on me anymore, but I'm not sure which option I'm supposed to edit or what value to put in to edit it. Reborn, can you shed some light on that for me?

Given this new information from you guys, I'm guessing it's just my video card that's overheating, not my CPU.

Attachments:
help2.JPG
help2.JPG [ 45.05 KiB | Viewed 8681 times ]
Author:  Reborn [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Sure thing. You don't have to go into the power user tab at all.

Here is a detailed tutorial on it - http://www.guru3d.com/article/rivatuner ... ck-guide/3

As for the F keys, they are actually completely different for different motherboards. Just because one key works on one pc doesn't mean it's the same for all. Some motherboards don't use the F keys at all. We'll worry about that later. First, see if you notice stability after adjusting the fan speeds.
Author:  CLOROX [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
if your cpu is running excessively hot. Try picking up some arctic silver thermal grease to replace the stock grease. Some cpu's will just run hot (my cpu idles at around 42-44 C range and go to 50+on full load).
Author:  Meteorology Man [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Reborn wrote:
Sure thing. You don't have to go into the power user tab at all.

Here is a detailed tutorial on it - http://www.guru3d.com/article/rivatuner ... ck-guide/3.....

As for the F keys, they are actually completely different for different motherboards. Just because one key works on one pc doesn't mean it's the same for all. Some motherboards don't use the F keys at all. We'll worry about that later. First, see if you notice stability after adjusting the fan speeds.


Ugh...I downloaded the newest version of RivaTuner, version 2.24. The tutorial is for version 2.0, and I couldn't find a place to download 2.0. See the image comments. I don't know how to get past this. I can't hit the "+" button near the bottom because it doesn't exist!

Attachments:
File comment: This is how it appears in the version I have.
riva_2.JPG
riva_2.JPG [ 51.13 KiB | Viewed 8667 times ]
File comment: This is how the box appears on the online tutorial.
riva_1.JPG
riva_1.JPG [ 53.52 KiB | Viewed 8667 times ]
Author:  Lime [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Yea it sounds more like a GPU overheating problem, try playing around with Riva tuner like Reborn is suggesting to see if you can manually increase the fans to see if that will help. You could also try to reposition some case fans or atleast make sure they are all functioning properly, maybe heat buildup from poor circulation.
Author:  Reborn [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Alright, I just whipped up a very short tutorial on manual fan speed control using rivatuner 2.24. This is a very simple way of doing it, but the main purpose is to confirm that the problem is caused by GPU overheating. So set your fan speed to 100 as shown in the video, and play the game for a while to see if everything is fine.
Author:  KuNg_Fu [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CSS crash
Can't he just try to change his fan speeds in BIOS? I know i can change a few of the fan speeds in there.
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